Interview for Beyond Webzine, December 2003

Tom... I already knew part of your history but when I take a look at While Heaven Wept's biography on your website, it's like you've been there forever... How do you feel today? Old or experienced and happy?

Depends on the day really! Generally these days, I am pretty content all things considered; we've come a long way in the last 14 years, and I'm more pleased with the "Empires" album than anything else I've ever released with any band. There's no question we are veterans of the underground, but I think we are more vital than ever.

Let's talk about WHW now... how did you come up with such a great album? Did you work all together to compose the songs?

Well as with all of our albums the music stems from emotional catalysts, and only comes through revelation and divine/demonic intervention; there is no particular rhyme or reason, other than the intentional construction work the orchestrating and arranging – everything else just “happens.” I think my departure from the band Brave among other things exerted a great influence upon my writing this time; there was definitely a sense of having something to prove, and I'm pretty satisfied with the results. As for the composition of the songs, like all of our previous offerings, I did compose the entirety of the music (aside from the cover songs/interpretations, but I did develop those arrangements). The band did however offer up many suggestions and ideas for the final arrangements, and we did try out every one of them. Bassist Jim Hunter for example had a plentitude of ideas and we ended up incorporating just about all of them, thus his vision was very integral to the final recorded outcome as well. We are for the most part, a democratic entity, and I think you'll hear more of a collaborative effort in the future.

What about the lyrical content? Tell us more...

The lyrics as the have always been revolve around events, circumstances, and relationships in my life. I always incorporate fantastic or perhaps even religious imagery strictly for the purpose of metaphor (we are not at all a religious band) but the lyrics are 100% autobiographical. I don't want to give too much away about the individual songs as they often have dual meanings (sometimes even 3), but I will say the range of topics on “Empires” spans everything from addiction and depression to vengeance. This is a bit different from the material released in the first decade, which revolved solely around a particular relationship's demise.

Why were the lyrical topics different in the past decade? Do you feel like you were you another person inside at that time?

I was a different person at that time; very much lost, confused, anguished, and needing to express my feelings about the aforementioned relationship more than anything else. Or so I felt; some of the things I sing about on “Empires” were realities back then too, but I suppose you could say my beloved became my muse in some capacity, and the truth is the loss of her was the most overwhelming event ever for me, almost to this day. It was the last in a series of disappointments and downfalls that quite nearly had me giving up on everything. What a lot of people don't realize is that from about 1991 on or so, the idea was that “Sorrow Of The Angels” would in fact be my epitaph, and that was to be all I had to say. When the initial sessions for that album didn't produce exactly what I wanted to convey musically or sonically, we split the material up into various releases, most notably “Lovesongs Of The Forsaken.” As the years passed by, and more material developed I became aware of the fact that I was fighting my way through the stages of bereavement through the music…from the shock and disbelief of “In Aeternum” and “Thus With A Kiss I Die” to the grim acceptance of “To Grieve Forever” (still to be released on the “SOTA” re-issue) I was not only detailing the events surrounding the demise of that relationship in the immediate sense, but shortly thereafter, and ultimately years later in retrospect. I suppose various people are thankful I never realized my vision completely, and that's partially due to the fact that all 3 attempts to record the “Sorrow Of The Angels” album ultimately failed in my opinion, but also because I was growing, healing in some capacity, and becoming involved in a lot of other relationships of varying nature over the years. The bottom line by the time “Sorrow Of The Angels” was released in 1998 – 8 years after it was originally conceived, I felt as though that particular circle in my life had been completed, especially once I finally spoke to my beloved again and sent her all these recordings/thoughts. Mind you, I wasn't satisfied with the album even when it was released, so we're going to do it a 4 th time, and I am positive we'll get it right this time, as far as what I have always heard in my head. But, I digress…the fact of the matter is that once that circle was complete, it was clearly time to address a lot of things that had transpired in the succeeding years, and thus, “Empires” was born.

You said your lyrics could be interpreted in different ways, two, sometimes even three... Isn't it frustrating to know that people may not get the essential message you're trying to pass on through your texts?

Not at all – I'd rather leave them open to interpretation so that every listener can find their own strand of empathy within the songs. The only people that really need to know what the songs are most literally about, are the people that provoked me to write them, and I'm pretty sure its damn clear as to what I'm on about to them. The thing is, all of the various meanings are true, so almost any way you can interpret them is correct. There's always going to be a literal meaning and something more abstract, but no less real. I think this is why a lot of people over the years have been able to identify with what I was singing about, on account of their own life experiences. And, if even one person feels less alone out there because of that, then I feel that my work and suffering is not in vain.

Did you actually speak with people/fans about your lyrics? Do they often feel the way you feel? Does the fact they interpret something the way you feel it make them closer to you? I mean, is there a whole human process around that way of sharing?

Yeah, I have interacted with a fair amount of people over the years that've written to us identifying with what I'm singing about. Maybe their circumstances don't mirror mine exactly, but it's close enough for them to feel like someone out there understands what they're going through. That sense of empathy always helped me through tougher times, along with the support of those close to me. What I can say about the people that have corresponded with us on such a deep level is that they mean more to me than someone who's just like “Yeah, you guys are fucking heavy! You rule!” I mean, the fact of the matter is that while its very personal music, and I tend to be a rather outspoken/open person, it's not like we still aren't strangers. Familiar strangers perhaps, but still strangers nonetheless - I actually have a pretty small “inner circle” that are privy to everything. However, having said that, those common bonds do hold a bit more weight than things more random. I can say that sharing is a very much a healing process though…if for no other reason than to express sometimes-difficult things, but often it's easier to find answers/resolution in doing so.   

One day, God said "While Heaven Wept are really intense people!" Or maybe it was another big guy... Whatever... Do you think he was right?

Hahaha! Yeah, I suppose we are pretty intense and serious guys a lot of the time, but just like with anything, there is a much lighter contrast too. I think a lot of people are under the impression that bands like ours or say Reverend Bizarre are nothing but miserable bastards, and we do have a lot of deep, dark thoughts and feelings, but in reality we're quite light-hearted in conversation. I suppose our sense of humor tends to be a bit blacker than most, but I think a lot of people would be pretty surprised to discover how goofy some of the guys can be! I'd say the magnitude anguish some of us have endured only enhances our capacity for bliss.