Interview for Control And Resistance, July 2003

1. Since in Hellas, unfortunately, not many are familiar with WHW, tell me some things about the band Tom.

We formed in 1989 under the moniker Dream Wytch, following the demise of our previous band Polaris. Fates Warning, Candlemass, Trouble, Queensryche, Black Sabbath, Celtic Frost, Coroner, Voivod, Bathory, Slayer, and Kitaro, as well as classical music were some of our main inspirations musically. By 1991, all of the founding members aside from myself had moved on to other things and the moniker While Heaven Wept was insurrected. At that point the music became much less aggressive and more introspective, following a series of tragedies in my life. Since the beginning, the line-up has changed more than 60 times, largely because of the fact that WHW is often comprised of members of other bands, in addition to quite a few people moving away/getting married/quitting music. Despite the relatively fluid nature of the line-up, we've produced 3 CD's, 3 7" singles, a 2LP Anthology, and have appeared on numerous compilations throughout the world. WHW has always been a completely independent band; we self-finance and self-produce all of our recordings, then license them out for release if we don't press them ourselves. Our latest album "Of Empires Forlorn" was originally released on Italy's Eibon Records in an extravagant, extremely limited edition digipak earlier this year, but will be re-released this September on the UK label Rage Of Achilles.

2. So now we have "Of Empires Forlorn" here, tell us how do you see it in comparison with your previous works.

"Of Empires Forlorn" really is the realization of everything I ever envisioned since the very beginning of While Heaven Wept, in terms of composition, performance, and production…all the areas that I personally feel we've fallen short of previously for one reason or another; I really perceive all the releases from the first decade as "developmental," whereas "Empires" is the work of a mature band, that has developed a distinct signature sound. That is not to say the compositions of the past are any less important to me, but I feel as though we failed to realize them to their fullest potential, hence the re-recordings that appear on "Empires," and those that are to come in the future. Besides having developed the "WHW sound," right now we have the ideal line-up, a great studio with a very pro-active engineer, as well as a strong determination to maintain and surpass the quality of "Empires."

3. What experiences do you feel were your main inspiration for "Of Empires Forlorn"? What do you consider your main trigger?

Unlike all of the material from the first decade, which focused exclusively on the demise of a specific relationship 13 years ago (in the immediate wake as well as in the succeeding years), "Empires" involves several circumstances, events, and relationships that have transpired in the years since then - kind of "filling in the gaps" if you will. While Heaven Wept has always revolved around darkness, despair, loneliness, sorrow, suicide, and grief, but "Empires" also discusses addiction, betrayal, and vengeance. The main trigger is life itself, as everything I've ever written about in WHW is in fact, taken directly from my own life experience, and presented in as brutally honest a fashion as possible.

4. The lyrics are very personal yet kinda allegorical, what drives your hand when you write them?

Continuing on from the previous thought, it's the need for catharsis and personal expression of the feelings resulting from the aforementioned events and circumstances that leads the pen to the paper. All of the lyrics and music come through revelations, never force, although there usually is an emotional catalyst. Absolutely nothing is contrived whatsoever. While a lot of the images are symbolic or metaphorical, they either describe the magnitudes of emotion or actual circumstances I've experienced.

5. And which are the Empires Forlorn?

They are the vast, haunted landscapes of ruin and despair that stretch infinitely from the desolate shores to the mountains of regret inside of me, littered with corpses of those once loved and hated, stained by the blood of my enemies and covered in with shards of dreams now shattered - the hell of myself.

6. Your music is not the common doom metal thing, its sound is rich and with elements of many other genres, even prog rock, do you share my opinion?

Even though we've always been associated with, and have proudly carried the banner of Epic Doom Metal, that's never been a completely accurate categorization of our music; While Heaven Wept is best described as "apocalyptic, symphonic, and melancholic Epic Doom Metal, with very progressive tendencies." We literally traverse an uncharted territory somewhere between Fates Warning, Bathory, Candlemass, Styx, and Bach, with a bit of Klaus Schulze to taste. I'd like to think that inevitably we fall closer to artists like Arcturus and The Devin Townsend Band more than anything else, even though we are clearly more traditionally metal than either. I don't think there is any other band in the Doom scene, let alone the industry in general that is doing exactly what we are doing right now, but you certainly could perceive "Empires" as if it were the modern equivalent to a 70's symphonic prog album ala early King Crimson, Pulsar, or Jane, but I've found that most people still call it Epic Doom Metal, which is fine by me.

7. The mind traveling and epic atmosphere of the album is one of the few, I wonder if you imagine of another world or universe when writing music? What dreams may drive you to make such a dreamy music?

The images described in the songs are exactly what I see, feel, and strive to paint with the music. I don't think I could better explain it than the way I did two questions back; that is the world that I've known all my life, and the songs are essentially picture postcards from the wasteland within. Mind you, I am not nearly the bleak bastard I once was; much of what I write about is past tense and I've since been victorious on many an occasion and have managed to find resolve in acceptance, but there was a time when all of that was very real, and not too long ago. That is probably why the music is increasingly surreal since it is this aural paradox of triumph and tragedy simultaneously.

8. Tell me what do you think of the following bands: Candlemass, Bathory (epic era), Manowar, Solitude Aeturnus. Now, why do you think I asked you about these bands and not others?

All of these bands are very influential upon me personally, even Solitude who are close friends of mine (and really more our contemporaries than anything else). I think it would be safe to say that if you were to reference the first 2-3 albums of each of these bands (in the case of Bathory, the first 3 Viking-era albums) melt them all into one band along with the Jon Arch-era Fates Warning releases, you'd have a pretty good idea of what WHW sounds like. Candlemass are the forefathers of Epic Doom Metal and without them neither Solitude, nor Solstice, nor WHW would exist. I still play "Epicus" and "Nightfall" regularly, and "At The Gallows End" literally inspired us to start Dream Wytch. As for Bathory, I love all of their albums, but the clean-vocal Viking era albums ("Hammerheart," "Twilight Of The Gods," "Nordland I&II") in particular are my favorites, and only Wagner himself is more Epic than those. I just wish Quorthon would strive to have a production like we do on "Empires" someday…that would be so immense! Regarding Manowar, "Battle Hymns" is a bit spotty for me, but "Into Glory Ride," "Hail To England," and "Sign Of The Hammer," are absolutely incredible. That is true, Epic Heavy Metal, powerfully and competently played and they've written some unforgettable songs. Unfortunately, I have to say they've become a bit of a self-parody in recent times, but they are still the Kings Of Metal. Lastly, my doom-brothers of Solitude Aeternus are responsible for two of the greatest Epic Doom Albums of all time ("Into The Depths Of Sorrow" and "Beyond The Crimson Horizon"), and are the only other Epic Doom Metal band to ever come from the States. Since those albums, they too have developed a unique sound, which to me is more of a hybrid between the Epic and the more "groovy" strains of stuff like Cathedral, and I do stand by them as brothers until the end, but I personally prefer the first two albums over anything else they've done. I suppose you asked about my take on these bands because either we sound like a hybrid of all of them (and they certainly are obvious influences), or because you personally feel that we belong in that group of bands, either way, you are dead on about that (Though, no one of us is really better than another as we all have our unique characteristics, although, aside from Bathory's "Nordland" albums, the rest aren't really doing anything similar to WHW anymore).

9. How important do you think it is to be open minded, as a fan and as a musician composing your music?

I think it is absolutely crucial from a compositional point of view, because the more influences you have, the more likely you will be able to develop something very distinctive. It's impossible for me to separate Tom Phillips the music fan from Tom Phillips the composer; I listen to everything (with the exception of rap, nu metal, top 40 and gospel), and I find inspiration in all that I hear - if it is something I enjoy, that makes me feel something powerfully, obviously I want to create music as moving, but if it is something that I don't like, it influences me to compose as far in the opposite direction as possible. For me, I perceive open-mindedness the same way I see musical education: it gives you more tools to better express yourself with. From what I can gather about non-musician fans, they basically listen to music that they enjoy, plain and simple, although I do know plenty of people that insist on sticking to one genre of music, which is fine - I just think they are missing out on a lot of other good things.

10. What do the other WHW members add to the WHW music, what is their role in the band?

The other members contribute some aspects of their own personalities through their solos and fills, which is something I absolutely encourage everyone to do. I've always tried to persuade the members past and present to bring some songs to the table, but that has never actually happened, mostly because they are usually writing a lot of the music for their own bands. The current line-up at least suggests ideas for the arrangements of the songs, and we do attempt to try out every last one of them; it's pretty democratic, in that we collectively decide what is best for each individual composition. Beyond musical contributions, the other members help design artwork, handle the band photography, and help with the promotion of WHW.

11. How do you think the evolution in your playing and composing has developed throughout the existence of WHW?

Considering I compose using the same methods of revelation that I always have, the approach has not really changed so much as the quality of the end results, which I feel have gradually matured over the years; most of the early material from the first decade was written when I was 16-17 years old - now it's more than a decade later, and I have a degree in classical composition, so there is no doubt in my mind that has had an impact. While I think my progress as a singer is more evident than my progress as a guitarist, in both cases, I am still growing more confident with my abilities. I abandoned the path of the virtuoso a long time ago, and I think that has in turn contributed to my compositional skills - now I am more likely to "trim the fat" off of things rather than opt for self-indulgence. That maturity lends itself to saying a lot more in a lot less time with a lot less flash for example. I am far more interested in delegating simple but unique melodic lines to each instrument and contrapuntally weaving a complex arrangement than fretboard masturbation. I'd have to say that I feel like I am creating some of the best music of my life right now.

12. What attracted you that much to the angels that were dominating the previous WHW covers? Was there a specific meaning behind the "angel concept"?

I've always used a lot of religious imagery in our lyrics and artwork, because I know how strongly people of faith feel about their spirituality, and I use those images to demonstrate the magnitudes of the emotions I feel, knowing I will get a very strong reaction because of it. It should be noted that in almost every case, these are images of angels cast out of Heaven, often crippled, tormented, desolate, and broken. WHW is NOT a Christian band, nor are we of any religion. All these images are strictly for metaphorical purposes. There is actually something of a running concept on the covers, but I'd rather not give away where all of it leads just yet.

13. And now it is the first time that your cover doesn't have angels or something similar to a renaissance style, why and what is the idea behind the "Of Empires Forlorn" cover?

Actually, if you look closely amongst the slaughtered, you will in fact see an angel clinging on to life barely, and it does maintain the aforementioned ongoing concept visually. The cover art of "Empires" is once again a work of Gustave Dore, and splendidly depicts the carnage described in the lyrics of the title track.

14. Many consider "Thus With A Kiss I Die" your all-time classic hymn, why do you think that is?

I myself consider "Thus…" to be my first "masterwork," in that it epitomizes everything that While Heaven Wept is about: extremely intense emotions, suffocating depressed atmospheres, extremely symphonic and heavily visual music, with numerous twists and turns throughout its lengthy structure. It is an Epic journey from start to finish, and I am very proud of how it turned out compositionally. I think the reason why so many people consider it "the definitive WHW song," is because it is in fact so intense and powerful. The melodies and hooks are instantaneously memorable, and it is one of the few times we actually stretch out a bit and opt for the self-indulgent "Dream Theater" approach (referring to the bridge section, where we change time signatures 33 times in 3 minutes). These days the song stretches to 20-25 minutes in length in a live setting, since just like the album, there is the improvised section (where the bass solo is on the album version). To be honest though, I'd like to hear why YOU consider "Thus" to be our all-time classic! Why don't you take this opportunity to do so?

15. Doom metal is the absolute most unfashionable sub-genre of metal music. Do you think there is a crowd big enough to enjoy and understand your music in your country, or do you feel there is a huge "downfall" in the quality of music in the industry. And what is "quality" in the music industry, as far as you are concerned?

The Doom audience is extremely limited in the States, largely because the industry does not do much at all to support or promote it, and when they do they are mistakenly calling Stoner Rock and slow Death Metal "Doom," which only serves to further confuse the potential listener. I'd have to say the industry here and as a whole is generally apathetic towards True Doom, and much more concerned with the latest trend or money-making scheme than quality music of any kind. My definition of quality music is: catchy, creative, and evocative songwriting, performed by top-notch musicians (not to be confused with "self-indulgent" or "shredding" - I'm talking about soulful, expressive performances by people who obviously can play, but don't elect to flaunt it at every opportunity), all captured by a classy production. Being musical has not been the "in" thing for many years here in the States, and I think it will still be some time before that trend changes. There are exceptions like Tool or The Dave Matthews Band, but those are really flukes in a way, because ever since Nirvana, it's been "cool" to be a musical imbecile. We have a whole new generation of the musically inept, and it is extremely frustrating.

16. It is said that Europe has a bigger audience, as far as Epic and Epic -Doom is concerned. Do you feel that your music is more appreciated in the States or in Europe and what is the one thing that gives you strength to continue throughout the years, even if WHW doesn't get the attention you undoubtedly deserve?

Plain and simple, WHW belongs in Europe. From the very beginning our core audience and primary network of support developed in Europe. I think this is predominantly due to the greater appreciation of art and the emphasis on culture there. The US is a pretty shallow, "fast-food" society, where people have become comfortable with instant gratification, and happily devour whatever they are force-fed by the media and industry. The Metal underground here is truly the minority (the Doom scene is even smaller), and that is exactly why I've never really bothered to promote WHW in the States. For a long time Germany has been the main market for our music, but I am hoping that we can break into the Hellenic market, as I know our music would appeal to a lot of the True Metal maniacs there too! We'll never tour the US unless it is absolutely clear that there is a demand for us, but we'll attempt to play in Europe as often as possible, considering our "do-it-yourself" approach. At last we'll be coming in the spring of 2004! As for what drives me to continue doing WHW is the need for expression more than anything else. When there is nothing left to say it would be time to move on to other things - although, making a difference in people's lives is a powerful incentive too. Like I said, to help one person to feel less alone in this world through the music of WHW is very important to me as well.

17. Give us some non-doomy wishes for the end.

First of all, thank you for the opportunity to express myself and talk about the new album Antonis - hopefully this will help us to reach more of the Metal Maniacs in Hellas, but either way, it is appreciated. To all the Greek readers out there: Not all Doom bands are slow and boring Sabbath clones or even slower and more boring Death Metal (laughing)! Some of us are following in the tradition of Manowar, Fates Warning, Brocas Helm, Manilla Road, and Iron Maiden who I know you all love over there! Check out our music for free at: www.mp3.com/whw. We'll be seeing you in Athens on March 26th, 2004 for Athenian Metal Night, where we will share the stage with great bands like Battleroar, Litany, Raging Storm, and Underwater Moon from Syros! Watch for our latest album "Of Empires Forlorn" in September on Rage Of Achilles Records - have your local shop order it from Cosmic Storm! In the meantime, the limited edition digipak version is still available from Italy's Eibon Records (www.eibonrecords.com). For more information on While Heaven Wept, feel free to peruse our website www.whileheavenwept.net, or contact us directly via email at plomerus@hotmail.com or snail mail at While Heaven Wept, c/o Tom Phillips, 4809 Lockwood Lane, Dale City, VA 22193, USA.

Hail to Hellas!
Doom Onward!