Interview with Monolith Zine (Greece), January 2003

1. Tom hi, it's been a long time since the release of "Sorrow of the angels". What happened during this time?

Immediately after the release of "Sorrow Of The Angels," I assembled the performing line-up of While Heaven Wept because the album was recorded as a three-piece, but involved numerous overdubs, and also, because the bassist on the album, Danny Ingerson was living 3 hours away in Philadelphia, and very busy with his own musical endeavors it was not conducive to preparing for live performances, so Jon Paquin and I called upon some of our mates from other local bands to round out the line-up. Bassist Jim Hunter (of Revelation and October 31 fame) was the first to sign on, and then we culled the brother/sister duo of Scott and Michelle Loose (on guitars and keys respectively) from the neo-progressive band Arise From Thorns. This line-up performed a limited number of concerts throughout 1999 and then took a break while I relocated across the country. During this time period I'd also become involved with Arise From Thorns as a co-producer for their second album "Before An Audience Of Stars," then eventually joined them on guitar for the shows in support of the album. We performed a handful of concerts in 1999 before my relocation, but I returned from the West Coast to rejoin them early in 2000, and started to contribute on a compositional level, so AFT evolved into the band Brave. Most of 2000 was spent writing and rehearsing material for Brave's debut EP "Waist Deep In Dark Waters," which was finally recorded that November. Although the collaboration was very successful from all standpoints, there was dissention amongst the ranks on both a musical and personal level, which lead to my departure in the first few months of 2001. All this time, WHW was on the back burner, but never considered "over." That January, I had already resumed work on the material for the next WHW album, but the split with Brave provided the catalyst that kicked things into high gear. The usual revolving door of membership continued turning throughout the first half of the year, but eventually settled down around October. This line-up rehearsed the material that would ultimately produce "Of Empires Forlorn," and we entered Assembly Line Studios in February 2002 to begin tracking. The recording process was spread out over several months, and included some time off during the summer, but we resumed in November and finally finished the album during the third week of December. At the time of this interview, the release is imminent.

2. Who is going to release "Of empires forlorn"? Do you have any ideas on the possible formats?

Currently, the only confirmed release for "Of Empires Forlorn" will be the extremely limited digipak pressing, once again on Italy's Eibon Records (www.eibonrecords.com). We are currently seeking labels interested in licensing the album for unlimited release in the US and abroad. There are bonus tracks that are intended to be exclusive to each version of the album that is made available. Interested parties should contact me via plomerus@hotmail.com. There are plans for a vinyl pressing as well inevitably, most likely via Germany's Metal Supremacy (www.ancientarts.de).

3. WHW have had many line up changes in their history. What is the new line up and how permanent this may be?

The new line-up consists of Jim Hunter on bass, Jason Gray (ex-Forty Days Longing) on drums, Scott Loose on guitar, and myself on guitar, vocals, and keys. For the recording we also had Jake Bodnar on keyboards, and it is likely that Michelle Loose will again be covering those parts in a live setting, plus we have been working with another guitarist, Paul Lipscomb, who will handle most of my parts live, so I can focus exclusively on the vocals.

As for the permanence of this line-up, your guess is as good as mine! I am not quite sure if everyone is on the same page here, but it seems likely that the core of Hunter/Gray/Loose/Phillips will remain intact for the recording of the next album "Vast Oceans Lachrymose." That is about as far ahead as I can comment upon at this time.

4. From what I've seen Jon Paquin has left the band. What were the reasons of this departure?

Well, when Jon first became involved with While Heaven Wept, it was strictly as a personal favor to me, no so much because he was a Doom Metal musician; WHW had existed since 1989, but during a lull in 1992, after drummer James Wharton had left to start a family, I joined a Death Metal band called Parasitic Infestation, for whom Jon was drumming at the time. I was only with them briefly, but I immediately recognized his talent, and asked him if he would help me out with WHW, which he agreed to. While there was a time where he really did empathize with the music (around the time of "Lovesongs…"), basically this favor extended into almost a decade. Doom Metal is certainly not the most gratifying form of music for a drummer to play, especially one of Jon's caliber… I mean this guy is one of the best in the world, and he would rather play something along the lines of Buddy Rich, which is totally understandable. Needless to say, when we first regrouped in 2001 he was involved, but was clearly not feeling the music, and that is a problem for sure.This led to more inconsistencies like not showing up on time for practice and lack of conviction, so we elected to employ someone who WAS all about this music in particular. I am sure that I will be involved with his solo work at some point in the future, and it is certainly possible that he will someday rejoin WHW, but for now, it is best we continue on our individual paths.

5. What are your experiences from your participation with "Arise From Thorns/Brave"?

It was really good for me to get out and explore other facets of my personality, and step out of the limelight a bit; Michelle is clearly the focal point of the band, and this allowed me to serve a supporting role for a while, giving me the opportunity to spend more time on my primary instrument, the guitar.

While in no way do I feel like we reached our full potential, I am very proud of the "Waist Deep In Dark Waters" EP, to which I contributed to greatly on a compositional level. It really was ¼ Arise From Thorns, ¼ Brave, and ½ Tom Phillips, but in a very different context than WHW.

Things did not exactly end on a positive note, but we have since "buried the hatchet" so to speak, and may even go so far as to record a one-off album of re-orchestrated AFT material along with some songs we were working on for their second release "Searching For The Sun," that did not make the final tracklisting. In the end Brave and WHW are irrevocably linked together; we are family, and there are certainly numerous possibilities for the future.

6. On previous releases you didn't wanted to comment on the lyrical section of the songs. Would you do it now or "Of empires forlorn" is also closely related to your own personal experiences?

All of the WHW songs are based entirely upon my own life experiences, and I don't think I could write lyrics any other way. Even my contributions to Brave are autobiographical in nature. The primary difference lyrically between the first chapter of WHW and "chapter two" is the fact that all of the previous releases focused solely on the demise of a specific relationship that came to an end over a decade ago, whereas the new album discusses several other events that have occurred in the succeeding years. I don't want to get too specific here, as I believe things should be left open to interpretation, but I will say that often in these lyrics, I am referring to 2-3 different things at the same time. Many dualities are contained within the metaphors. And, I can tell you that this trend will continue on to the next album as well.

7. What are these "forlorn empires"?

They are the kingdoms that I helped to construct, but have since been exiled from. The viewpoint of the album is set high above these vast landscapes of ruin…the Hell of my own, where I will reign eternally… damned… but enthroned.

8. A question that I wanted to ask you since the release of "Sorrow...". Why do you re-record some already released songs, like "La mort d' amour" or, in the case of "Of empires forlorn", "Sorrow of the angels"? Do you think that these songs were under-valued or do you think there are different aspects that should be presented?

Even before the release of "Sorrow" I had intended to record more elaborate versions of all the early material, so it would be more consistent with what I hear and envision. I've never really been satisfied completely with the recordings we produced in the first decade; I consider them demos and developmental works, but nothing definitive. The reasons for this range from how they were originally performed, produced, and orchestrated to the development of better recording technology or musical equipment. When all is said and done, only now do I feel like we are really capturing the true sound and essence of WHW. In no way am I attempting to rip people off by releasing the same material over and over again; it all comes down to personal satisfaction and the most accurate realization of the compositions. Additionally, all of my songs are like children that grow and develop with every line-up change/passing year. Once we complete the recording of the "Sorrow Of The Angels: Definitive Edition" after the release of "Vast Oceans Lachrymose," I don't anticipate any further re-recordings aside from any live albums that may materialize.

9. You are one of the few bands that release 7" ep's. Are you a vinyl fan, who does not want to leave some things on the shelf, or do these releases just happen?

I am indeed a fan of the vinyl format, as many of our fans are, so I try to release special items like these just for us. Even with modern recording and archiving techniques, there is still a warmth that is only captured by the vinyl format. Plus, with the exception of Eibon Records who produce the most amazing works of art in the industry (in terms of packaging), no CD will ever compare graphically to the vinyl releases of yore. I absolutely intend to continue releasing limited edition singles and albums on vinyl for the innermost circle.

10. All these ep releases are in limited editions. Do you think that some are collector's items already?

As soon as something is released on vinyl in this age of digital technology, it increases in value. It may be a seemingly archaic format, but as I mentioned before, it has its own unique attributes like natural compression and warmth often lacking in the colder, and sterile digital medium, therefore there is a demand to some extent from those who remember. Since everything from our first decade is now out of print, most of the releases are sold at an inflated rate. As an example, I recently saw the very first 7" from 1994 ("Into The Wells Of Sorrow") being sold through Hellion in Germany for 30 Euros. All of the vinyl pressings besides the "Chapter One" double-LP anthology were hand-numbered as well, and considering their limited pressings, are indeed rarities that will never be made available again.

11. Why did you choose "Epistle no 81" for a cover? It isn't Candlemass' most known song (although it is considered a classic one).

For many years I have wanted to interpret this song; it is one of the most beautiful compositions that I have ever heard, and it always seemed to be a logical choice for me considering it's subject matter. It was done with the utmost respect because I am aware of its significance in Sweden being the composition of their national poet Carl Michael Bellman. Additionally, Candlemass have always been a huge influence upon WHW, but I did not want to go with a more obvious choice like "Solitude" or "Samarithan," probably because of my commitment to promoting lesser-known artists and compositions.

12. You did well with the vocals in "Epistle…". Can you imagine yourself performing live with Candlemass in Messiah's position?

Not after the painstaking process of recording those vocals! (Laughing) Messiah has gained even more respect from me than he already had, as those melodies are not easy to perform by any means, as several lines fall into the threshold between chest and head voice. At any rate, I can honestly say that I have never aspired to be a member of Candlemass or any other band, especially as a vocalist. The only reason why I have been doing the vocals for WHW is because I feel like I could better express my own words than anyone else. I will always be hyper-critical of my vocals, and would gladly step aside if we could convince Jon Arch to come out of retirement (Laughing).

13. You seem to admire Fates Warning's first era a lot.

Yes, that music is VERY special to me to this very day, and for some people, that era's influence upon our music is still very clear. I mean "Guardian" changed my life forever, and still brings tears to my eyes to this day. There is a magical essence captured on "The Spectre Within" and "Awaken The Guardian" that I've never heard anywhere else, although there are moments on "No Exit" like "Quietus" that are equally magical. Really, from the very beginning it was clear that Fates Warning was a special band as evidenced by "Damnation" and "Night On Brocken," but it was the other Jon Arch-era recordings that had that mystical feeling throughout.
Those two albums still rank up in my top 10 of all time, along with equally special albums by Arcturus, Devin Townsend, Journey, Kitaro, and Queensryche.

14. I believe that "Lovesongs..." was more "raw", while "Sorrow..." was the most elaborate, as you've stated in the past. "Of empires..." sounds to me more melodic than all of them. Am I right?

Personally, I think "Empires" is the most elaborate AND melodic of all our releases. There are so many more layers on this recording, and I consciously sought to compose more immediately memorable melodies. "Lovesongs…" is indeed the most raw and stripped down of our recordings, and that was the intention: to present the heart of the music, rather than the elaborate orchestrations I envisioned inevitably, while "Sorrow…" really established the foundations of our sound properly. "Empires" is the next step beyond these foundations; it is more diverse musically and more fulfilling in terms of compositional depth/maturity.

15. Also the tracks in "Of empires forlorn" are shorter in duration. This means that you don't have a specific concept for the structure and the duration of the songs?

The primary reason for the shorter song length on this album is the fact that I wrote the words after the music unlike the previous releases, which were complete lyrically long before there was any music. This also reflects a greater sense of maturity in the compositions, as I am able to say a lot more in much shorter length of time. Around the time of my collaboration with Brave, I decided it was best to "trim the fat" off of my compositions, and really only have as many parts/transitions as the songs require. There is nothing in the way of filler material on this album (not that there was on previous releases, but some of the songs tended to drag a bit, however appropriately).

16. What pushes you to change your sound and direction?

This can be attributed to my obsession with progressive rock and fusion, as well as my awareness of the evolution of classical music. I've always preferred artists who surprise their audience with unexpected twists and turns from album to album, like Queensryche, Fates Warning, Rush, or Devin Townsend. You can expect certain characteristics, but not the exact blend of elements. This helps to maintain integrity and enthusiasm from a compositional standpoint. Mind you, artists like AC/DC and Yngwie have their charm, but it is not something I want to do with WHW. I am all about progression, and will never perform a specific style of music just for the sake of doing so. That is falsehood to me, and I think that our fans deserve a lot more than that.

17. I think that this behavior was clearly seen in "Sorrow of the angels". Perhaps, this was a reason for the longer duration of the songs in "Sorrow…", the adventurous nature of the songs?

Again, most of the length was due to the slower tempos, and the fact that the lyrics were written before the music. I think that "Empires" as an album is more adventurous as a whole, certainly more diverse anyway. By no means have we abandoned the side-long compositional style, and in fact, the next album "Vast Oceans Lachrymose" will feature another 20 minute opus, with numerous transitions and sections. It is really like 4-5 songs within one song, with unifying themes and elements. It is once again highlighting the more Epic side of WHW, but in a much more aggressive way, not unlike some of the songs I was writing at the very beginning of WHW in 1989-90. Doom freaks need not worry, as the rest of that album will be balanced out with some of the slowest, atmospheric Doom Metal we've ever composed… at times even getting into Shape Of Despair and Skepticism territory; by the time we finished recording the "Empires" album, we had already completed the compositions for "V.O.L.," so you can expect this much for sure.

18. Epic/doom metal as we once knew it seems to be disappearing. Do you think that this has happened because most of the leading bands have diverged or has this style simply run its course?

Well, there never exactly was an Epic Doom Metal trend to begin with; there have only been a handful of bands in this genre ever to have existed, and just about all of them are gone or inactive now. Having spoken to my brethren at great length about this subject, I can say that the general consensus is that no one feels the need to release "Epicus Doomicus Metallicus Part 2" anymore. Everyone that has released more than a demo has evolved beyond the original mold created by Candlemass; Solstice moved on into Epic Battle Metal, Solitude became more of a hybrid between the Epic Doom and more 70's influenced Doom like Cathedral, and WHW has evolved into something even more unique (I cannot even really describe it myself in less than a paragraph). I feel like at this point in time, we are either further genre-defining or genre-defying. I will never shun the Epic Doom label, and do proudly defend its flag, but I see no sense in duplicating the works of the past. Personally, I think there is a lot further to go in terms of Epic Doom Metal progression, but at the same time, it is pretty clear that none of us are composing within the same confines that Candlemass established. Thus, Epic Doom Metal in its purest sense, is virtually extinct in this day and age, but there are new bands in the classic mold coming along like Thunderstorm and Doomshine, so there is always hope.

19. I agree that there was never an Epic/Doom Metal trend. What do you think are the main differences between the American and European doom metal scenes?

As always, the European scene is much more connected, which is most likely due to the geographical locations of the bands; while there are still plenty of Doom bands in the US, everyone is so spread out that there really is not a scene per se here. Most of the once burgeoning Maryland scene is now decayed, bloated, and self-parodying at this point, and this was probably the greatest concentration of Doom bands in any one area of the States ever (most of the infamous Hellhound Records' roster was located in the Washington-Baltimore metropolitan area). There are a few bands soldiering on like Cold Mourning, a rejuvenated Revelation (!), and Pale Divine, plus a handful of new entities like Orodruin, but for the most part Doom might as well be non-existent here. Of course, this is looking at things from the perspective of TRUE or CLASSIC DOOM METAL, as opposed to Death/Doom or Stoner Rock crap. Pretty much ANYWHERE you go now, the modern definition of Doom Metal refers to bands ranging from Skepticism and Shape Of Despair to the Peaceville 3. On one hand, I've always supported these off-shoots of Doom, but I still would prefer a greater distinction between the sub-genres, so that a casual listener won't pigeon-hole anything.

20. So I guess that you are opposed at any trends. Do you believe that after the collapse of the trends there will be linking points of the Doom Metal culture and those other musical acts? What I mean is will people still believe that doom metal is connected with i.e. sludge?

These days, most musical boundaries have become so blurred that you would be hard pressed to find anything 100% pure. Just look at this whole rap/rock hybrid that is so popular these days - as appalling as it is, it has become an accepted form of expression in the mainstream. As another example, look at all the Hardcore bands, who used to take the piss out of Metal bands… yet, years later what do they sound like? Old Death Metal bands! So, to look at the future of doom in general, I don't think that there will ever be as clear of a definition as when there were only a handful of bands. I am sure that anyone who plays slow at all will get lumped into this category, however inaccurate that is. My only hope is that some of the more traditional bands do outlast the Stoner Rock and Death/Doom bands, so that there is SOME hope of distinction. I don't mean to perpetuate our divisions, but at the same time, it is often infuriating when people go so far as to suggest that the genre of music that we perform is "played out" or archaic. There is still so much more to say and do musically within the realm of True Doom Metal. And, in some capacity, I will fight in the name of Doom until the day I die, even if I personally don't feel the need to express myself through that style of music. However, there is no shortage of inspiration at this point, because there always seems to be some drama in my life unfortunately.

21. WHW receives a lot less attention than bands like those do. Do you feel that if you had stronger support from the media you could reach a broader audience or do you prefer to address to a smaller, but nevertheless more devoted audience?

I personally would like to reach as many people as possible, but would prefer not to get enveloped by some trend or marketing strategy. It does not bother me one bit that every kid with a Cradle Of Filth shirt does not listen to WHW. It really is not meant for everybody to begin with. However, I believe that we have a lot more to offer than your average Doom band, because of our progressive sensibilities and willingness to experiment with new elements and sounds. Greater support from the media would absolutely help us reach a wider audience, because we have been dwelling for so many years in the "sub-underground" proudly with our brethren, yet we have production values that rival the largest acts in the larger underground including Rhapsody and Opeth. The ultimate goal would be to establish a fanbase that is not relegated to any particular genre or category other than While Heaven Wept; think about Pink Floyd or Dead Can Dance… their audiences are comprised of such a diverse populace… that is what I would aspire to as well, where the empathy and devotion is deep any way you cut it. However, I again would not want an audience that is shallow, and present only because Epic Doom became popular or something… to dwell in the cult of obscurity would be a far more gratifying fate in my opinion.

22. You have also inaugurated a web site. How useful do you think that will be in terms of promotion and your communication?

I think it is pretty much essential in this day and age for any band, especially a self-financed band to have a website. People want information, and the faster the better, which is why we designed the website without a lot of Flash or elaborate animations; our sole purpose in creating this website was to offer as much information as possible to everyone, even those with the slowest servers/dial-up connections. Because we maintain the site ourselves, we are able to immediately post news, the latest Mp3's, and can continually update everything. For anyone that is not familiar with WHW, we have a plethora of information available on the site, and as far as communication, all of the members' email addresses are posted as well. I invite anyone who is even remotely interested to check out the homepage www.whileheavenwept.net

22. That's all I wanted to ask you. Do you have anything to add as we end this discussion?

Thank you for the interesting questions John… I appreciate you giving me yet another opportunity to express myself after all these years. Thanks also to all of our supporters in Hellas… I hope you enjoy "Of Empires Forlorn." Pre-orders are now being accepted by Eibon Records for the limited edition digipak, and we are as I mentioned previously, seeking labels interested in licensing this album in an unlimited (jewel case) capacity. Watch for some excellent WHW merchandise coming from Rock Bottom in Germany early in 2003. Doom forever onward…

Band contact: www.whileheavenwept.net or plomerus@hotmail.com and via snail mail at: While Heaven Wept, 4809 Lockwood Lane, Dale City, VA. 22193, USA
Label info: www.eibonrecords.com