Interview with Moonlight Shadows magazine, 2003

Greetings Tom. I hope this interview finds you in a perfect condition. I would like you to write down a small story/tale which begins with the following phrase "While Heaven Wept... (please continue)..."; the usage of your imagination shall be regarded as a necessity.

While Heaven Wept is the bleak storm that has gathered over a life left in the fields of eternity, an insight into the journey of a living sepulcher and the marriage of tragedies divine and glories infinite.

Do you believe that you were born to become a musician? When did you realize that music was your passion? Do you think that this passion of yours will ever fade away?

Being that I was born into a fairly musical family (my dad, brother, uncle, and cousin all played instruments, and the other siblings listened to a lot of music) I think it was pretty much inevitable that I'd do something musically related, even though I've always been more or less self-motivated; it would be hard to ignore music in an environment like that. By the time I was 4-5 years old music was a major part of my life, and I started playing guitar in the summer after 3 rd grade... but it wasn't until a realization around 1990 that music meant as much as it does to me now; it was then that I officially converted to the religion of music, as I had determined it was the only thing that would never leave me, that always provided me with solace and answers, that would never be untruthful or unfaithful to me... and from then on I've bowed to the gods... Beethoven, Bach, Chopin, Wagner, Hendrix, Black Sabbath... etc. I may not always actively record, release, and/or perform music, but I am positive that I will always write music and listen to music. The fact of the matter is the music is I, and I am the music - I've transcended beyond the passions, ambitions, and work of most people... quite literally music is my one, my all, my being, and my everything. I am but a channel for the music itself... and I allowed it to envelope me long ago. It's not a career or hobby, nor is it about fortune or fame and notoriety - my purpose is strictly the accurate realization of what I hear in my head and heart.

Has music ever helped you to overcome any kind of problems (emotional, social, personal, economical, health) in your life?

Both listening to and composing/performing music has helped me in every area you mentioned, with the exception of economical <laugher>! Buying equipment, recording, and a full-blown addiction to CD's and vinyl essentially equates to an endless money pit! To be completely serious (not that the previous statement wasn't!), I would not be alive today if it were not for music. Like I said, it has always been a solace, source of inspiration and wisdom, and While Heaven Wept specifically has helped me to heal and grow. I couldn't put it any other way than: "without music, life would be a mistake" - to quote Nietzsche.  

Have you ever felt true love? If yes, can you please describe it to us? Do you suppose that love is only connected with "positive" feelings, something that I personally disagree with?

Yes I have been fortunate and cursed enough to experience true love. True love is the most blissful and painful of all things to experience; blissful for its distinct warmth in the heart and soul, the deep feelings of connection and completion, and the freedom from condition - excruciating for all the times of separation, disagreement, distance, worry, and sometimes even the brutality of honesty... let alone the greatest anguish of all: the death of love. I know better than to think love is nothing but happiness... I mean, generally it is a very positive thing, but there will always be thorns with every rose you grasp. Personally, love killed the person I once was, and through a long period of rebirth, I continually felt the wounds from my past... yet, all the while, there was always still this little, microscopic spark of hope that could never be extinguished, for as hard as I tried. So rather than existing in fear of love, I have chosen to love as if I've never lost... at least after a decade of catharsis via While Heaven Wept. The question I always found myself asking was literally the Queensryche lyric: "Knowledge - was it worth such torment?" and even though I never WANTED to know what I do now, I can say that I'm fortunate to know what I do... so yes, knowledge is worth the torment of acquiring it. And I'd rather have even a moment of heaven than nothing but an eternity in the hell of myself. To love and be loved is to know joy and anguish beyond words... and to experience these feelings in the most extreme capacity, is to truly be alive.

Is it obligatory for a Doom Metal band to create songs long in duration?

No, absolutely not - there is no particular "formula" for a Doom Metal band, although there are distinguishing characteristics. One of the primary reasons so many Doom bands have long songs is the extremely slow tempos they are performed at, but even with the "Empires" album, we consciously strived to say just as much as we used to in 20 minute songs in less than half the amount of time, so that should debunk that theory right there. Mind you, since the lyrics were revealed to me after the music this time around, they did not require anything longer, but that is not to say other compositions in the future won't be fairly lengthy. It all depends on what they require to say what they intend to, as well as how they come out to begin with.

What makes While Heaven Wept an Epic Doom Metal band?

The media, record companies, distributors, and the fans of our music! That's the label we were given a long time ago, and while I've always been proud to perform under that banner, we could also easily be described as Dark Symphonic Progressive Rock, Epic Metal, True Doom, Doom Metal, Neo-classical Metal, Heavy Metal or any hybrid of the above! When we first started we described our sound as "The Music Of Romantic Melancholy," but now I don't think it can be called anything other than "While Heaven Wept Music" at this point. To answer your question from the perspective I think you intended, the Epic and Doom aspects relate to the feelings that the music creates, while the Metal is because of the bastard heavy nature of our sound.   Furthermore we've always been categorized as members of the same circle of bands that include Candlemass, Solstice, and Solitude Aeternus - and certainly Candlemass were a major influence, but not the sole inspiration behind the band. Like I said, I am much happier to be held in the company of those groups than say Rhapsody or someone as equally comedic as that.

When people become very desperate usually turn to religion. They assume that Jesus Christ and the church can offer them affection and warmness, just like being the perfect asylum for their souls. It's the one and only thing they trust. According to your personal experience do you believe that religion can play that role and offer such things?

Everyone at one point or another requires comfort, sanctuary, reassurance, and insight. A lot of people do in fact find their solace in religion - even I do, but not in an orthodox sense, considering my religion is music. It is a power greater than myself that provides for me the same things Christ or Allah or whomever gives to others. Perhaps it would be better to say that my spirituality is based upon music, as I do not endorse ANY doctrines, which is what religion essentially is... a set of rules/standards to live by. My problem with any conventional religion is primarily the fact that some other HUMAN created or interpreted those rules... but what may have been right and wrong for him/her isn't necessarily valid for me. Have you ever noticed how every religion states that the others are all wrong, and only their way is right? To me, that isn't any different from politics (which I also do not ascribe to at all); it's all opinion. Sometimes, I think that perhaps if you found all the parallels between every religion, somewhere you'd find a perpendicular, which would probably be the most accurate of all paths of faith. Needless to say, I've digressed quite a bit here, so I'll get back to your question... while I do believe religion can serve the purposes you mentioned for many people of every race, sex, and circumstance, it's simply not for me. I know how important it is to people, so I often use religious imagery in my lyrics, but that is strictly metaphorical. I know what is right and wrong for me, and I follow my heart and instincts... that's the bottom line.

You've confessed in many previous interviews that your lyrics are based in 100% personal memories and experiences. How does it feel to reveal all those personal moments of your life to the public? Isn't better to keep some things to yourself?

For the most part, it is very cathartic, and really, I am proud to be brave enough to be as brutally honest as I am. I NEED to write the way that I do to heal, grow, and ultimately maintain my sanity. I'm not afraid to admit that I bleed, cry, crawl, seethe with anger, pine for loves lost and unrequited, or embrace bliss and joy for that matter. For a long time however, I could only express these things through the music, because I DID live in fear and confusion, or sometimes, no words alone were sufficient enough to express what I was feeling. Over the years that's changed of course, but I don't think I could write lyrics (or music) any other way - I only know what I've experienced or seen; I'm not going to talk out of my ass, as there are too many things to say before silence is all that remains, and never again will I spend years in wonder, holding anything in; I may be able to better articulate myself in conversation now, but that doesn't mean music has become any less of a vehicle for my deepest thoughts and expressions. I'm sure there are plenty of people that couldn't give a fuck about what I'm writing about, and that's fine...I didn't write it for them - I write what I do for me...and there ARE a lot of people out there that really do identify with what I'm singing about and have lived through, so for every one person in ten thousand that no longer feels alone because of this, it's worth every minute of wearing my heart on my sleeve.   

What's the worst thing that can happen to a man?

It's going to be different for anyone you ask, and I'm sure most would say right off the bat something about having their cock severed <laughing>. And while I can't argue with that too much, for me the absolute worst thing that could happen to me would be to compromise my integrity and/or live life in a lie...and of course losing my hearing...even though the music would resound in my head, to not be blessed with it ever again...well honestly? I'd sooner choose to die.

What's your opinion on drugs? Many musicians are promoting the use of them, without being aware of the fact that some people will check them out just because they said so. Can you find any advantages in trying them out?

Well... to be honest, in my time I have tried just about every kind of drug that's out there, and in some cases, I've indulged in quite a large amount, and I am glad that I know what I do having used them. We all know they are unhealthy, and in some cases simply dangerous, but until you've tried them you really have no idea what you're talking about. Drugs are just one of those things that only experience AS WELL AS science can define; you can't know all there is to know just from reading a book about them. I certainly do not encourage anyone to experiment with them... listen to the lyrics of "The Drowning Years" or "Soulsadness" - it's pretty clear that drugs and alcohol nearly destroyed me completely... and I'll never be free from those addictions, but I try my best to take responsibility for them. If someone wants to experiment with something, they are going to do it no matter who encourages or discourages them... all that I would ask of anyone who respects my opinion or music is that they stick to "natural things" and stay away from chemicals, needles, pills - as nothing good comes from them in the end. On the other hand, I'm also not going to preach about their "evils", as they have different effects on different people with different tolerances, but I know what I've done personally and what I can and cannot do. I'll just give you this insight... if you do not have the discipline or tolerance to open the doors of your subconscious mind, it is best to leave them shut for your own good and the good of those around you, particularly those who care about you. I'd rather not elaborate on the advantages and disadvantages any more than I already have...it's a personal decision for each individual to make, and hopefully with all the information that is out there today, that decision will be an educated one.

Let me quote from the "Sorrows of the angels" album. There is a small note on the digipak, where you say "feel free to enhance the listening experience as needed." What exactly do you mean? Is this a straight reference to drugs, or am I completely wrong?     

If you feel that drugs would enhance your listening experience personally, then yes it is a straight drug reference, but if lighting some candles or sitting near the window when it's raining enhances your listening experience, then no, it's not. I'd rather leave that open to interpretation really. Different people hear different things in different ways...however you best open yourself to the music is exactly what we meant with that statement.  

Is there going to be another pressing for the "Of Empires Forlorn" release? I don't think that 1000 copies (original pressing from Eibon Records) are enough for the fans of the band.

Yes, "Of Empires Forlorn" will be released in an unlimited capacity by the UK label Rage Of Achilles on October 13, 2003. This version of "Empires" has been re-mixed and re-mastered, plus it will feature one song that did not appear on the original Eibon digipak. The Rage Of Achilles pressing will be in the standard jewel case format.

Can you tell me more things about the cover of the CD? What amazed me in this image, are the colors of it. So bright, but still so melancholic and dark, if you get my point...

As with most of the While Heaven Wept releases, the cover artwork is a work of the great Gustave Dore, who illustrated Paradise Lost, Dante's Divine Comedy, and The Bible with his amazing woodcuts. The cover of "Empires" is actually a painting often referred to as "Enigma." I agree that the colors are a bit brighter than one would expect from us, but considering the darkness of the images I think it is perfect for "Empires;" a lot of people have said the music contained within is simultaneously depressing and uplifting, so if it is in fact an aural paradox, it makes perfect sense to have something complementary in the visual department. The vision of carnage...dead children and mothers, crippled soldiers, and dying angels on a precipice overlooking a valley in flames are very similar to the images in the lyrics of the title track as well, which is the main reason I choose this particular painting. I'm extremely pleased with the artwork for this album.

Do you enjoy playing live? Can you describe a bit the feeling you get every time you sing your pain on stage? Have you ever cried while singing one of your songs on stage?

For most bands, playing live is what it's all about, but While Heaven Wept is very selective about when and where we perform; generally speaking, it is pretty rare for us to perform in concert. The reasons for this are multifold: first of all, considering the very personal nature of the music it is more suited for private listening. Secondly, when we do play live, we strive to make it an event...an experience...which involves a lot more than just plugging in an playing; we use specific lighting and props occasionally, plus we often extend and/or otherwise alter the arrangements of the songs, which can involve improvisation even. Lastly, generally it does not behoove us to perform here in the States, as our style of music is very underground and unpopular, plus most of our fans are over in Europe, so we tend to limit our live appearances here to festivals for the most part. As for myself, I do enjoy performing very much...it can be very cathartic and invigorating. When we play live it is much more raw and heavier than on CD, and especially with the new material we strive to give a powerful and energetic performance unlike most Doom bands that just stand around and moan. We literally attack the stage! I often go deep inside of myself when we're performing, drawing on the pains of the past, or even recent frustrations, seeking to purge myself...and deliver the lyrics with the utmost intensity and sincerity. Sometimes it is literally like crucifying myself onstage...and yes, I have wept from the intensity of everything on occasion, but it is even more common to see people in the audience crying actually! The bottom line is we give every performance everything we have, and regardless of the circumstances (sound quality, equipment, size of the audience).

Have you arranged any tours for this album? Will we have the chance to see you live in Greece?

We're in the process of organizing a European tour in support of the "Empires" album for the spring of 2004 right now. Even though we are very hesitant to perform live in the US as I just mentioned, we are very much looking forward to meeting and playing for our longtime fans overseas...it really is where we belong. While we're still not sure about all of the places we are going to perform on this tour, the whole thing will begin in Athens, Greece for sure! So I hope we'll see a lot of people there on March 26, 2004! Other than that, we're definitely doing several shows in Germany (including the Doom Shall Rise II festival), Belgium, and The Netherlands. Other potential countries one of the two legs will pass through include Hungary, Austria, Slovenia, Poland, and Czech Republic, but none of those have officially been confirmed just yet. This is our first tour of Europe in 14 years, and there is no guarantee we'll make it back, so again I suggest anyone who is even remotely interested should make it a point to come to one of the shows. Athens will surely be a highlight of the whole tour!

What's the concept behind the last song "From Empires to Oceans"? Musically, it's the same melody of the second track "Of Empires Forlorn" performed now on keyboards, right? Why haven't you put another song instead of this, sort of, outro?   

Yes, essentially "From Empires To Oceans" is a string arrangement of the title track for the most part (the additional material will make more sense at a later date). If you're familiar with the Estonian composer Arvö Pärt, then you will recognize the style it was performed in; the chord progression's subtle changes were 100% inspired by his "tintinnabulation" technique...the bell-like resonance of tones juxtaposed over each other. "From Empires To Oceans" also demonstrates the complexity of the arrangements within the songs; if you removed the guitars, drums, vocals, and bass guitars from any of the songs, you'd find a structure similar to this. This particular piece was included on the Eibon pressing as a special bonus track, exclusive to that digipak, and we intended to do something like that since the album was first conceived. It is absolutely NOT simply filler material - it is meant to be there, and personally I think it rounds out the entire album perfectly. Like I mentioned previously, we omitted this piece from the Rage Of Achilles pressing in favor of another vocal song, but I really think "From Empires To Oceans" should still be there, which sums up how important it really is to my vision of the album. If nothing else, you can view it as the "closing credits" to the journey through the album (which is continuous in sound)!  

I have the impression that you have used your voice in more varied ways than the last CD. Like in song #3, "Voice in the Wind", where you very successfully try some high-pitch vocals. Am I right? Anyway, what's your personal way of singing?

You're correct that I really pushed myself on this album. Basically, I wanted to perform exactly what I heard in my head, which in some cases was easier said than done, however somehow I managed to pull it off! Actually, believe it or not, it was a lot more comfortable to do the higher vocals this time around than the ones in the lower register that I used to sing in regularly. There really is no explanation for that, but I'm certainly relieved either way! As for my "signature style" of singing, there really isn't anything in particular that defines it - I think I tend to vary from song to song, at least according to my own ears. The one common characteristic would be the impassioned delivery...I insist that every line comes across as sincere, but as technically accurate as possible. I've never really been overtly thrilled by the quality of my vocals, but I definitely feel a lot better about those on the "Empires" album than on anything else I've ever done (with any band). I suppose it could be said I first "found my voice" on the "Sorrow Of The Angels" album from 1998, and that I have been developing it since, but there isn't a specific formula or anything like that. It's all about what I hear, feel, and envision in the end.            

Which is the saddest song you have ever heard?

What immediately comes to mind is Gorecki's symphony number 3, "The Symphony Of Sorrowful Songs." Particularly the recording featuring the soprano Dawn Upshaw with the London Sinfonietta - it is sung in Polish and the three movements lyrics are taken from folk songs and prayers, one of which was inscribed on the walls of Auschwitz by a young prisoner. It is almost impossible to listen to that without being overcome with grief. A close second would be Barber's "Adagio For Strings," which has over the years become a national hymn of mourning here in the US. If you were hoping for something from the metal or rock world, I'm afraid that very little music of that natural really creates such powerful feelings for me. The closest thing would be Styx's "Dear John," an elegy written to their (then) recently deceased original drummer.

I consider While Heaven Wept to be one of the few bands in the world that creates such sentimental music. Is it easy or difficult to transform your feelings into music? How did you manage to do this with your last album?

Everything comes very naturally because for one, it's all based on real life experience and my own feelings, and secondly I compose through revelation strictly - nothing is ever contrived or forced into being. Every note, word, and melody comes from the heart and soul, at least in terms of the basic song structures (I do develop the final arrangements on paper after the skeletons have formed). You could even say the songs write themselves, and I merely channel them through my instruments and experiences. Having said all that, the music (and/or lyrics) come really easily when they do, but there are plenty of lengthy "creative droughts." As for the "Empires" album specifically, there was a lot of burning inspiration from the onset, as I was dealing with the demise of a few relationships (some working, some personal), and there was definitely a sense of having something to prove at the time as well. So you could differentiate the older material from the songs on this album by subject matter - everything from the first decade referred to a specific relationship's demise, whereas "Empires" begins by discussing circumstances and events in the succeeding years.

Can you offer us details on your label Vast Music Lachrymose? What are its latest projects?   

Essentially Vast Music Lachrymose is our private label that was created to release the music of While Heaven Wept, but we haven't released anything on it because we've ended up licensing out all the releases! Technically, the "Of Empires Forlorn" release was a cooperation between VML and Eibon, just like our 1994 7" was a collaboration with Open Eye Records, but for the most part it's just a name printed on the packaging. When all of the current licenses expire, if we don't renew them, we will re-issue all of the releases on VML. It is also possible that we will release some special recordings or even all future albums (past a certain point) on our own, however at the moment, there really are no plans for anything.

Tom, a big thanks straight out of my heart for creating so amazing music... I really mean it... end this however you wish...

Thank you John for this very interesting interview... I appreciate the fact that you didn't ask all the typical historical and biographical questions...interviews like these are few and far between, so it's been a pleasure. If anyone out there is interested in more information about While Heaven Wept, "Of Empires Forlorn," or anything else related to the band, I encourage them to peruse our websites www.whileheavenwept.net. We can be contacted directly via email at plomerus@hotmail.com or snail mail at While Heaven Wept, c/o Tom Phillips, 4809 Lockwood Lane, Dale City, VA 22193, USA (please included SASE or the appropriate number of IRC's). Otherwise, we hope to see you and your readers in Athens on March 26th 2004 for an unforgettable night!!! Doom Onward...