Interview for Vibrations Of Doom, August 2003

1. I must admit that I had not heard of you until one of the guys in Arghoslent told me they thought I had covered you in my publication. Are the guys in your area, and how do you all know each other? And you mentioned something about not subscribing to their politics or their philosophies, maybe you could elaborate on that? I love their newest record, but even I am not sure what their philosophies or stances are!!

I’ve known Arghoslent for more than a decade now – not only do we come from the same Virginian extreme Metal scene (which was very much inter-supportive at one point in time before being divided in the mid 90’s by a lot of backstabbing, shit talking, and jealousies – things seemed to have calmed down with the coming of new generations, but it can still be pretty volatile), I’ve also been in a couple of other bands with some past and present Arghoslent members such as Grand Belial’s Key and Twisted Tower Dire, plus a couple of us were involved with the Sinistrari Records label (who released our first MCD “Lovesongs Of The Forsaken” in 1994). We still live in the same general vicinity and remain in semi-regular contact, although both bands tend to do their own thing these days, having little interaction with the other DC area groups. Anyway, they’ve received quite a bit of criticism for their extreme political and philosophies – I appreciate the strength of their convictions, but ultimately, I really don’t care about anything besides the music personally; people are entitled to embrace whatever political, social, and religious views they believe in, but like I said, I don’t subscribe to ANY school of thought in those respects, though I may occasionally exert an opinion on specific subjects, generally it is irrelevant to me. I do appreciate and agree with their musical philosophies however – maintaining integrity and the underground aesthetic as well as true expression without compromise. Musically, Arghoslent is one of my favorite bands still to this day; I think they are one of the best Death Metal bands of all time, primarily because of Halac’s unique riffing and the overall distinctive songwriting. I agree that “Incorrigible Bigotry” has some amazing moments, but “Galloping Through The Battle Ruins” is just as killer in my opinion. Arghoslent is the epitome of Battle Metal: Epic, Brutal, Glorious, and probably the only band locally that exerts an influence upon me (although I do recommend to anyone who has not heard Grand Belial’s Key “Judeobeast Assassination” pick it up too as it is the best True American Black Metal album ever, and totally different from Arghoslent apart from the unique riffing).

2. This album seems to be the result of several older songs and I suppose some newer tracks. How different are songs like 'Sorrow Of The Angels' and 'The Drowning Years' from their earlier counterparts? And of course I would like to know what sort of sound you had on some of your older releases.

What’s interesting about your question is the fact that “Sorrow Of The Angels” actually is an older song that first appeared on the aforementioned (and out-of-print) “Lovesongs Of The Forsaken” MCD in 1994, so that should give you some indication of where we come from. The songwriting process has been the same for years: the basic structures develop strictly through revelation usually via an emotional catalyst; they are never contrived or forced into being. Once I feel that the skeleton of a song is complete, only then do I take the composition to the table to flesh out the arrangements. Musically, the primary influences remain intact (Candlemass, early Fates Warning, Viking era Bathory, Kitaro/Klaus Schulze, classical music, etc.) and for simplicity’s sake it could be said that While Heaven Wept has always been an Epic Doom Metal band; although I personally feel that we are more diverse than that, I proudly hold high that banner. My opinion of our earlier releases is that everything from the first decade was strictly developmental when compared to the “Of Empires Forlorn” album, where we have truly come into our own, having developed a distinct, signature sound, not so much in musical style, but the quality of the production and the density of the arrangements. There is no question that we have diversified within our own parameters (which have expanded slightly over the years) considering the vast differences between songs like “Voice In The Wind” and “Of Empires Forlorn” for example, but ultimately this album is essentially an evolution, not a departure. Probably the main quality that distinguishes some of the newer compositions from earlier works for many people is this “aural paradox” that some of the songs exert, where feelings of deep tragedy and glorious triumph are evoked simultaneously, whereas everything else in the back catalog is completely bleak, depressive, and hopeless.

3. And also, I must ask, what of the songs that didn't make the latest album "Of Empires Forlorn?" Will they be resurrected later on in some fashion?

Originally, “Of Empires Forlorn” was going to be a MCD released on The Miskatonic Foundation before we opted to release it through Eibon Records, who also released our 1998 album “Sorrow Of The Angels.” Rich Walker (TMF label head/Solstice mastermind) kept insisting we include more and more new songs, which we tried to oblige him with, but I also always intended to include some older compositions that had evolved as well (and initially appeared on long out-of-print releases) which led to an impasse. I’ve always maintained a very clear vision of what I want to do with While Heaven Wept, and my personal satisfaction overrules any other opinions or logic, thus I discussed the situation with Mauro of Eibon, who has always supported my ambitions, regardless of how irrational they may be (laughing), and he subsequently agreed to release “Of Empires Forlorn” (which had by then evolved into a full-length release) exactly the way I envisioned it. That’s not to say that Rich and I had a falling out, we are brethren as well, but we don’t always agree on things, and when it comes to While Heaven Wept, I know exactly how I want every release to be arranged long before it is realized. Anyway, aside from a few surplus tracks recorded during the sessions for “Of Empires Forlorn,” there really weren’t any songs leftover that “belong” to this particular era; these bonus tracks are being released on different pressings of the album (which is being licensed to various labels for different regions) as well as on forthcoming vinyl singles. We actually had most of the next album “Vast Oceans Lachrymose” written by the time we began recording “Of Empires Forlorn,” but I knew none of those songs were meant for the current release, and given my very definite vision this should be no surprise. Of course there are plenty of songs “in the archives” considering our 14-year existence, but whether or not any of those will ever be recorded or released is another story altogether.

4. I am curious how the deal with Eibon Records came about, and is it difficult being a U.S. based band dealing with a somewhat small, Italian record label?

I’d been in touch with Mauro since his old band Ras Algethi released their first demo, (which in fact, came out about the same time as ours) and over the years we developed a very strong bond and lasting friendship, so when he decided to start Eibon Records with the release of Canaan’s “Blue Fire” (his band that had evolved from Ras Algethi), While Heaven Wept signed on immediately without hesitation. It was an obvious choice considering the premise behind the label, the fact there was so much trust and empathy between us, and because we adore each other’s music (WHW and Canaan could be considered related in spirit still to this day). Eibon is really an “anti-label” in that the focus is strictly on art and expression, not profit; Mauro only releases music he believes in and likes, with no concern for financial gain. In the beginning Eibon never advertised or pressed promos, as all of the music was very dear to heart and not meant for every little shit wearing a Cradle Of Filth shirt, so the whole approach was very much anti-industry. Although recently Eibon has begun pressing promos, the values are still the same, and I appreciate the fact that Mauro continues to defy this industry that is impregnated with greedy, jaded, and apathetic corporations. Around the time of “Sorrow Of The Angels,” some of the band members cajoled me into pressing for more promotion and such, which went against my instincts, and I regret that brief period, but otherwise I’ve always been 100% satisfied with Eibon. After all, who could complain about having your heartfelt creations being realized as a true work of art (Eibon is known for its extraordinary graphics as well as extravagant digipaks and other unique packaging)? Although now we’ve since licensed “Of Empires Forlorn” to Rage Of Achilles for release in the standard jewel-case format for the European and North American territories, that was only because we needed to replenish our recording budget for the next album (all of our releases are 100% self-financed, aside from mass production in recent times), and also we feel that “Of Empires Forlorn” stands alone in our specific genre – we want people to know Epic Doom Metal is alive, well, and not going away, despite the adversity and apathy we are often confronted with, but we’ll always release special editions through Eibon before anything else.

5. I must admit I was very impressed with the Candlemass cover 'Epistle No. 81,' though it seems to be (to me) a bit shorter than the original! What made you decide on this more obscure track rather than, say, something off of "Nightfall" or even "Epicus Doomicus Metallicus?"

IÅfve never been one to opt for the obvious path, and covering ÅgSolitudeÅh or ÅgSamarithanÅh would have been just that. That aside, IÅfd wanted to do an arrangement of ÅgEpistle No.81Åh for the last 6-7 years because I felt that it is a very beautiful and moving composition. Of course it should be noted that it is not actually a Candlemass song to begin with; it is a traditional Swedish hymn composed by Carl Michael Bellman (SwedenÅfs poet laureate _ their equivalent to Shakespeare). Our arrangement was done with the utmost respect and reverence for the Swedish people, so hopefully we did ÅgEpistle No.81Åh justice. The reason it seems faster than the Candlemass version is because unlike them, we did not use a click track when we recorded it so the momentum shifts throughout the song, as if weÅfre rushing to the grave (laughing)! I personally think it feels more natural this way, but I donÅft know what Leif Edling thinks of it, but I am curious since he hates their version of it, which is admittedly more rigid in comparison. Either way, I certainly have even more respect for Messiah, as it was extremely challenging for me to sing.

6. By the way, the way you did vocals on that song, if Messiah Marcolin hadn't rejoined Candlemass, I dare say you would have been a killer replacement! Had you ever considered this, and what did you think of the Candlemass stuff that was released after Messiah left?

Well thanks man! I don’t really consider myself to be in the same league as Messiah personally (or Geoff Tate, John Arch, and Steve Perry for that matter), but I do know all of the songs from the “classic era” intimately. I don’t think I would be very comfortable stepping into those shoes however, as I prefer to sing my own lyrics to my own songs, and even then, only because I lived through what I sing about, thus able to convey things better than just about anyone else. I really only started singing for While Heaven Wept by default since we could never find the appropriate vocalist locally; I am a guitarist first and foremost (been playing for about 20 years), but even there I think our other guitarist fits that into that role more proficiently – I really consider myself more of a songwriter/arranger these days than anything else. Anyway, taking the vocalist position in Solstice was about as far as I’d go in terms of singing someone else’s lyrics, as they never had a particularly distinctive or “signature” singer and all of the vocalists have had similar ranges to mine; I don’t think I could ever join Candlemass or Solitude Aeternus as they just would not be the same without Messiah, Johan, or Rob respectively, but I would not mind a guest spot! Having said that, the Candlemass that existed after Messiah left was a completely different band really; the neo-classicism and gothic imagery was replaced by more of a bluesy, Sabbathy vibe not that far removed from Leif’s other projects like Abstrakt Algebra, Krux, or even some early Nemesis. While I really do like those albums, generally I don’t perceive them as Candlemass proper, so I was elated when the classic line-up reunited, and even had the honor of hanging out with them and seeing them live again at the Brave Words and Bloody Knuckles Six Pack weekend in Cleveland this year. Fucking killer show indeed (especially when you factor in the reunited Trouble, who performed a nearly show-stealing set just before them). As a footnote, I actually prefer the session vocalist on “Epicus Doomicus Metallicus” Johan Langquist to even Messiah, as I think his performance was very soulful and bereft of the operatic histrionics that sometimes overshadowed some of the Candlemass songs.

7. It was absolutely amazing to me to hear that you had once played with the mighty U.K. band Solstice. I still listen to their "New Dark Age" album quite frequently, and even interviewed them once. Sad to hear they broke up, but how did you get involved with them, and did you write any material on any albums or do any shows with them?

Well first of all I’d like to inform you and your readers that Solstice is back together again and we’ll be releasing a new EP called “To Sol A Thane” sometime in 2004 I imagine. That’s right, I’ve rejoined the band and we’ll returning to the pure Epic Doom Metal of the “Lamentations” era. The new line-up is a veritable supergroup consisting of members of While Heaven Wept, Twisted Tower Dire, and The Lord Weird Slough Feg along with main-man Rich Walker. Anyway, to answer your question, I first became acquainted with Solstice through our mutual friend John Perez (of Solitude Aeternus/Brainticket Records); he sent me a dub of the “Lamentations” album in 1995 because I kept getting told how much WHW and Solstice sounded alike, which I did not believe because I’d only heard the Dutch and Floridian bands with that moniker, neither of which sounded anything like us. Needless to say, I was blown away by the similarities and the amazing songs on that album, and contacted Rich immediately who’d also recently realized our parallels. I happened to be heading over to the UK with my college’s choir to perform there, and subsequently ditched them to travel up to West Yorkshire, meeting up with Rich and the rest of the band. We got on very well immediately, and I jokingly said “hey if you ever need a singer just let me know” after Rich expressed concerns about Simon Matravers performances. Sure enough, just days afterwards, in London where the band was playing, Rich told me Simon had quit and offered me the job. I accepted basically immediately, as I loved the album and recently recorded “Halcyon” EP. I returned to the States for a couple months to get my affairs in order, then returned to the UK in early 1996, where upon I moved into the Solstice stronghold. We ended up drinking more beer than rehearsing or writing, but we were already blueprinting the material for “New Dark Age.” We did a handful of shows that were lackluster at best, partially because I wasn’t really comfortable at the time being it was my first time that far away from home, and my general inexperience as a frontman proper (it’s different when you have another instrument to fall back upon), plus we were undergoing line-up changes as well. This was all further complicated by financial problems, record labels going under, and the fact that the new WHW album “Sorrow Of The Angels” was still pending. Once I returned to the States in the midsummer of 1996, WHW began re-recording “Sorrow Of The Angels” (after I shelved the previous sessions from when D. Clayton and Kevin of Dysrythmia were in the band), and it just seemed less and less likely that I’d be able to regroup with Solstice any time in the near future (especially considering my transatlantic flights would be paid for with their recording budgets on top of that, which I definitely did not want to do), so they carried on with Moz, and I finished off the WHW album. Fast forwarding to 2002, after Solstice called it a day, Rich decided he had more to say, and wanted to regroup with musicians he knew he could rely on, that believed in the music as much as he did, so I was once again asked to join on and that’s exactly what I did. I’m very thankful we have the chance to finally realize the potential of our collaboration, and what’s even better is the fact that I get to work with other former bandmates again like Scott Waldrop. Expect nothing less than crushing, arcane Epic Doom Metal.

8. The one thing that really surprised me was the blackened vocals near the end of 'Of Empires Forlorn,' and it was such a crushing thing to add! It makes me ask, did you do those vocals yourself, and why not do more black metal vocals on tracks in the future? I've always said that if I could do a band it would be doom metal with both clean, power metal and black metal vocals, since that hasn't really been done a whole lot.

Yes, I did the black metal vocals too, only because that particular passage really called for them, being the riff was very much something you’d hear on an old Slayer album or maybe even the first Deicide. When I first started doing the vocals in 1991 after our original singer Brendan Galvan left, it was somewhere between Paradise Lost and Emperor, with the extremely low, guttural approach intermingled with the caustic Black Metal screams because I had not developed my clean vocals at all during that time. That was only a brief experiment, as we went right back to clean vocals when Kenny Thomas joined on guitar and vocals later that year. Although I had always been a fan of Thrash, Death, and Black Metal, I decided relatively swiftly that those vocal styles totally obscured the emotion in the vocals and lyrics, which are important facets in While Heaven Wept, so we went back to the Queensryche/Fates Warning clean approach. Besides, like I said before, WHW has always been an Epic Doom Metal band more or less, and slow Death Metal is not really the same as Doom; how can someone interpret screaming as anything more than anger and aggression? What’s Doom about that? Sure, you could look at it as the expression of anguish, but there are so many other facets to feelings of despair. Think about bands like Winter or Cianide – very grim, dark Death Metal, slow as Doom, but exerting different feelings…even the Peaceville 3 only exerted more of a doomed feeling because of their use of melody, keyboards, clean vocals (etc.) otherwise it was just really slow Death Metal with somber lyrics. While I’m less quick to write off some of these “Death/Doom” bands, than say Stoner Rock bands (both styles of music criminally tagged as Doom by the clueless media and labels), you have to admit there is a high degree of ambiguity to that sub-genre. When all is said and done, I suppose a definition of Doom is in order here to further make sense out of what I am getting at here: To me, Doom = Mood - dark, depressive, ominous, slow, heavy (aurally or atmospherically) emotional music, epitomized by the opening sequence of Black Sabbath’s “Black Sabbath” or the mellotron dirges of early King Crimson or even a fair amount of classical music. Think about it like this: how evocative or moving would it have been to replace Samuel Barber’s “Adagio For Strings” (considered a national hymn of mourning here in the States) in the movie Platoon with say, Slayer or even Paradise Lost? It would have created a completely different mood. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not like I don’t enjoy bands like Katatonia or Anathema, but there is definitely a difference between them and bands like WHW or Solitude Aeternus, even if occasionally there are similar shades within the music. From another standpoint, True Doom music is based in Metal – you’re not going to find any of us wearing frilly shirts, sipping wine by candlelight listening to Opeth! Death/Doom really is more of a hybrid of Death Metal and Gothic music in the end, and has little or nothing to do with the music our bands perform. You may ask why my colleagues and I seek to differentiate ourselves from some of the aforementioned bands, and the answer is simply this: after more than a decade of the media confusing people by mislabeling bands for the purpose of “convenient categorization,” record companies building off of this ambiguity and saturating the market with so-called “Doom” bands to the point of nausea, it nearly killed us all off – if it weren’t for the fact that some us have such strong convictions and the need for musical expression, True Doom would be extinct at this point in time. Having said all of that, I would have to say that “Of Empires Forlorn” is about the furthest anyone could go and still be considered True Doom, but that is certainly what we were best described as for the last 14 years. As we continue to evolve, which we have even since “Empires,” I think we are getting to a point where our style of music can only be categorized as “While Heaven Wept music,” and I’ll be the first to admit we’re crossing over into other realms now, thus leaving bands like Solstice, Thunderstorm, Dawn Of Winter, Orodruin, The Reverend Bizarre, and The Doomsday Cult to carry on performing Doom in its purest, truest form. Therefore, it’s entirely possible that we’ll incorporate more aggressive vocals if the music calls for it, but generally the same realization I had some 12 years ago still rings true: when it comes to music of sadness and despair, you’d be hard pressed to get the right emotion from the music if you are screaming and grunting. However, for something more violent or aggressive, I’m definitely not averse to screaming bloody gore! If I started from scratch today, I would absolutely begin with a different set of parameters, that are much wider in scope, but for WHW, we still have plenty of existing facets we can explore and develop without incorporating a lot of new elements.

9. Speaking of black metal vocals in doomier styles of music, are you familiar at all with Forest Stream? They are quite an incredible band, on Earache Records, but they aren't strictly doom metal. They DO use a lot of atmospheric keyboards and stuff though.

Aside from the Lunaris album (which was criminally likened to Arcturus) I haven’t bought an Earache release since Morbid Angel’s “Blessed Are The Sick!” I’ve heard of Forest Stream, but I don’t actually own any of their music. What is funny about you mentioning them is for as much as the True Doom bands differentiate themselves from Death/Doom, they in turn differentiate themselves from bands like Forest Stream! As a listener, I don’t give a fuck about what category a band falls in; if it’s good music and makes me feel something, then I’ll listen to it, which is what I suggest to everyone. The whole issue of categorization is more of a personal thing for the musicians and militants directly involved than anything else – it affects marketing and promotional strategies as well as solidarity, but when all is said and done, good music is good music. The only reason I even bother to discuss these issues at all is because my friends and I have been directly affected by the ludicrous amount of misinformation spread through the media and Internet. Anyway, sorry for all the tangents, but someone needs to make sense out of it all (laughing). I’d certainly be interested in checking out Forest Stream nevertheless, but I have to be honest with you, after 7 years working for Tower Records, and 15+ in the underground Metal scene, I have become a bit jaded, and it takes a particularly innovative sound or a group with obviously strong convictions to hold my attention for more than 30 seconds.

10. I'd really like to know some of the lyrical input behind songs on the new record. Tracks like 'Soulsadness' have lyrics that really hit home, especially the line that says 'I'm bleeding to death, inside.' Sometimes I really feel these lyrics, man! Then again, I guess I should mention that I do suffer from mild cases of depression at times.

All of the lyrics from day one are entirely based upon my own life experiences, and I don’t think I could write any other way. Like the music, the actual lines come through revelation at any time – driving down the road, at work, at the pubs, wherever. For all of the releases in the first decade, the lyrics revolved around the demise of a specific relationship back in 1990 that changed my life forever. With “Empires” I’ve begun discussing a lot of things that have transpired in the succeeding years since then, as well as other relationships (platonic, romantic, and even familial). The lyrics are definitely even more introspective than ever before, and crafted in a fashion that allows for numerous interpretations; a lot of the songs have dual meanings and in some cases even three or more. I don’t want to give too much away, but I will say that they address everything from addiction to betrayal to vengeance and despair.

11. Are there any other bands in the doom metal genre you like? I should mention some of my favorites are bands like Shape Of Despair, who are funeral doomy/death, utilizing female vocals, flutes and violins, of course I mentioned Forest Stream, and there's Forgotten Tomb, who are more black metal oriented, but have the suicidal theme running throughout their albums. Oh yeah, then there's Mourning Beloveth, who hopefully I will have the pleasure of seeing here in the States soon.

Speaking strictly of True Doom, I enjoy everything from the godfathers (Black Sabbath, Pentagram, Witchfinder General, Pagan Altar, Desolation Angels, Trouble, Saint Vitus, Candlemass, Revelation, Penance), our contemporaries (Solitude Aeternus, Solstice, Dawn Of Winter, Forlorn (now called Isole), Mirror Of Deception, Millarca, Spiritus Mortis, Cold Mourning) to newcomers like The Reverend Bizarre, Minotauri, Orodruin, Thunderstorm, Pale Divine, The Doomsday Cult, Doomshine to name a few. I’m not really into biker rock/Stoner Rock or the drone scene like the bands from the Hellhound, Rise Above, and Southern Lord labels, nor do I like 4th generation clones of the Peaceville bands. I do enjoy a lot of the Funeral Doom bands like Shape Of Despair, Skepticism, Pantheist, and Until Death Overtakes Me, as it is indeed a much more doomy variation on the Death/Doom genre, though still essentially even slower Death Metal – you can’t misinterpret that atmosphere as much considering the lack of sudden blast beats and layers of sad melodies. I have to admit though, it often puts me to sleep (laughing), but I mean no offense towards my funereal buddies. Generally speaking however, while I do listen to a lot of Doom, and own a huge collection, I spend more time listening to obscure 70’s Prog, and some of the more unique artists out there today (like Arcturus, Devin Townsend, Ulver).

12. One thing I was curious about is why you didn't have another vocal track instead of the instrumental 'From Empires To Oceans,' which seems to me really just a more symphonic and instrumental version of 'Of Empires Forlorn.'

“From Empires To Oceans” is indeed an orchestral version of the first half of the title track with a hint of something to come. I am very pleased with it because it is something of a tribute to one of my favorite composers Arvo Pärt (a contemporary Estonian composer who is known for his minimalist style called tintinnabulation) and it was only included on the Eibon pressing of the album as an exclusive bonus track so that the limited edition digipak is even more special. On the forthcoming Rage Of Achilles version of the album, it has been omitted in favor of another vocal track called “In Aeturnum” (which appeared in a very different form on the out-of-print “Lovesongs Of The Forsaken” in 1994). As for the composition itself, it is demonstrative of the complex melodic layers weaved into the songs, which are predominantly contrapuntal in nature (numerous independent melodies juxtaposed against each other). I really think “From Empires To Oceans” is the most intense track on the album emotionally, and it totally rounds the album out quite splendidly. If you actually put the album on repeat, it segues back into “The Drowning Years” seamlessly, so in theory, not only is the album continuous sound, it’s also infinite!

13. So what does 'While Heaven Wept' represent to you name wise? To me it seems like the word displays maybe a sorrowful eye being cast towards humanity as a whole. What really saddens me is the multitude of people suffering, I look at elderly people especially today and realize that many of them were probably striking figures at a younger age, and it really sucks to see people that time is withering away.

That’s an interesting take on it actually, and it certainly could be applicable…almost the concept of Weltschmerz (world sorrow), but in truth, the origin of the name is far more personal: Back in October 1990 (prior to 1991, we had a plethora of monikers, though the music we performed is the same), I received a letter one sunny afternoon from my beloved…distance and circumstance had come between us, and she wrote to tell me “she had just given up” and that she’s “not the only one in this world.” Needless to say, considering she meant everything to me and was all I had at the time, I was gutted, and stunned. Sickened, struck down and weeping in grief and anger, I fell to my knees clutching this letter…the sky above me turned black and burst into tears as if empathetic to my despair. The Sorrow Of The Angels – that’s what that song is about. A year later to the day, the moniker While Heaven Wept was insurrected. That’s the true origin of the name, but it does in fact represent many things. What is almost mystical about this is the fact that for many years, every time we rehearsed, performed, or recorded, it has rained. As an aside, I’d like to articulate that While Heaven Wept is in no way religious, and definitely not Christian – I use a lot of biblical and fantastic imagery on our album covers as well as within the lyrics, but that is strictly because I am aware of how much faith and symbols of faith mean to a lot of people, and in WHW they are strictly connotative of the magnitude of emotions and nothing else.

14. Any tours being lined up? Would love to see you come through the Southeast. Tell us about some tours you have done, and funny tour stories are ALWAYS welcome!

Right now we are in the process of organizing a European tour that will take place in the early spring of 2004 (March-April). We’ll be touring with several different bands over the course of an intense 3 weeks, including Mirror Of Deception, Penance, and Orodruin. Generally, we’ll be headlining most of the shows including 3 festivals: one night of Doom Shall Rise II (www.doomshallrise.tk), Athenian Metal Night (www.estelle.gr/amn), and Belgian Doom Night. We’re definitely performing in Greece, Hungary, Austria, Germany, Belgium, and The Netherlands, but may also do shows in the Czech Republic, Poland, and Slovenia. More information will be posted on our website as things develop. Prior to this, While Heaven Wept has never toured; we’ve only performed a handful of shows, mostly festivals and special events considering both the personal nature of the music and the monolithic nature of our stage shows. I’m sure there will be plenty of hilarious stories from the tour, but that will have to wait a while. I will say that after the Born Too Late festival in Rochester, NY this year, at the after show party in our hotel, I managed to pass out standing up! But hey, at least I didn’t drop my cigarettes or spill my beer!

15. I noticed you were also a member of Brave, and performed over a hundred live shows in a year! Did this experience help you learn anything or did you bring anything with your experiences with Brave over to the reformation of While Heaven Wept?

Yes, it helped me decide that I should never play in someone else’s band ever again (laughing)! No, seriously, there were a lot of great times playing with Brave, and I’m proud of the music I wrote, recorded, and performed with them, but things ended up going so bad that our friendships deteriorated to a point almost beyond salvage. This provided the necessary catalyst to take WHW off of the backburner (we never really broke up), not to mention a renewed conviction among other things. Fortunately we managed to resolve our differences and now we’re getting along great again which is a good thing considering Scott and Michelle of Brave both play with WHW. Otherwise, I definitely learned the value of putting on a great show every night…really providing entertainment rather than just playing the songs through – this is something I knew already, but my experience with Brave definitely cemented this. Another thing was I learned how important communication and chemistry is to a successful collaboration. There were also a ton of things I disagreed with them about and other things I learned from our studio experiences for example, which allowed me to make better decisions during the recording of “Empires.” Probably the most important thing I gained from Brave, besides having the chance to explore other facets of my playing was meeting engineer Kevin “131,” who was integral to the realization of the “Empires” album. Maybe someday I’ll get back together with Brave and finish of some of the songs we never completed…anything is possible, but for now, we’re carrying on with out own projects.

16. Doom metal nearly always seems to have great releases coming out, though the releases seem so few and far between. Do you have any idea why this might be? It seems there are few bands that dwell in the realms of doom metal.

Well, first of all, Doom has never been a trend and never will be. You don’t get rich playing Doom…and every one of us knows this. It’s not about money or fame, just personal expression, or in the case of some bands a love for that kind of music. Most people don’t want to dwell upon or hear about negative things – they’d rather listen to or play music that helps them forget everything that is wrong with their lives. What they probably don’t realize is that for some of us, it is the greatest catharsis of all. Anyway, another thing to consider is the fact that neither the media nor the labels go out of their way or step out on a limb for Doom in general. Sure, WHW, The Reverend Bizarre, and Orodruin are getting a fair amount of attention these days, but for the last decade, we and our colleagues have been facing nothing but apathy to be honest, apart from the sub-underground. There’s a reason why so many Doom albums become shelf warmers at distributor’s warehouses! You have to promote the music! Correctly! Nevertheless, there are more Doom bands of all varieties than ever before these days, so the tides may be turning, but I doubt you’ll see Shape Of Despair or Warning reaching Opeth status. What I would suggest to people interested in finding more Doom, check out the Internet; there are websites, Mp3 sites, and webstores dedicated to it, and plenty of information out there. Just beware that there is a lot of drama and infighting between bands and fans as well.

17. I don't know if you want to talk about it, but there was mention that you went through a lot of tragedy, including personal losses and illnesses. If you want to mention anything, that would be fine, if not, I understand how hard it may be to relate personal tragedies...

Basically I’ve lived through a lot of death, loss, disappointment, trouble, sickness, and drama – perhaps no more than any other human being, but the only way I could cope with it all at such a young age (I was barely 15 when I started this band) was either through music or oblivion. The fact that I have overcome a lot would probably explain the triumphant aspects of out music, being that I am still here to write about it all. I think the lyrics explain just about everything there is to know about what I’ve endured. When there’s nothing more to say, you won’t see WHW performing Doom just for the sake of it…that would be false; we’ll either continue moving on into other realms, or it will come to an end. We’ll never become redundant or self-parodying that is one thing I can promise. Things are going well these days, and although there is always the potential for unexpected tragedy, I think I’ve gotten to a point where I can accept most anything that transpires. This may alarm some fans out there that want more Doom, but fucking hell, you can’t condemn me for striving to reach and embrace contentment. And if they do, they can fuck off.

18. If there's anything else you want to mention, please use this space here. Thanks again, I must say that this is definitely one of the highlight records of this issue, along with, of course, Forest Stream!

Well first of all, thank you Steven for the interview – an opportunity to express myself is always appreciated, particularly with questions as interesting as these. I’d also like to thank all the friends and fans we’ve gained over the years…your support is priceless. Other than that, I’d just like to mention “Of Empires Forlorn” will be re-released by Rage Of Achilles in September 2003, so it should be much more readily available than any of our other releases. Our websites are available for perusal: www.whileheavenwept.net and www.mp3.com/whw, so don’t hesitate to investigate further. The band can be contacted directly via plomerus@hotmail.com or snail mail at: While Heaven Wept c/o Tom Phillips, 4809 Lockwood Lane, Dale City, VA 22193, USA.

Doom onward…